thank you all for being with us. lou: now to your comes. obama wins either way, he wins if negotiation go his way or if we go over the fiscal cliff, either way, america loses. not so fast, i think we have choices. that is it for us, thank you, we'll see you tomorrow night, good night from new york. neil: think fat cats are still angry at the president? fat chance, what if i told you a lot of sucking up to the talk about off the wall or should i say off the wall street, welcome neil cavuto here, and charlie gasparino had it right, there is no squirmier, bunch than those on wall street. they were throwing any money they had to make sure that

barack obama would be a one termer, but now all but core coreon core -- cronning him all some with between emperor and king. a growing number of financial types figuring now that the president is in, best both sides sort things out by caving in. on everything from higher taxes for the rich, that is fine. higher investment related taxes on everyone, have at it. more stimulus, why not. why this folding like a cheap suit now? maybe because the financial suits figure to go along so just get along. i think that elections have consequences, i did not think that wall street so quickly selling its financial soul was one of it in other words, if you hate someone, stick with it!

that's all i'm saying, charlie gasparino, liberal columnnist, -- he goes by progressive. rick you thinker. unger is here with us, and charley you first, you called it you saw it but a leap of skill on your part to conclude these3 guys are dise dis disingenuous . >> you are talking about all my sources,. neil: but you were spot on. >> deputy to hillary clinton, former morgan stanley executives trying to be obama's chief of staff. and tom knight has been making the rounds on wall street having dinners with various wall street

streetictives. -- executives. and he setting the stage for an interesting wall street embrace of the president. you listen to these guys, ceo of goldman sachs, goes up there before the water, he looks like he has within water tortured 5 minutes before, eyes shifting. neil: i don't know he was waterer to thetured. i think that guy, whoever? lead, and whoever is the winner. things he opposed, long columns on, just weeks ago, now sign me up. >> what is ridiculous, he went out and said we need to cut expenditures and a planned approach but then he said, president has a credible plan ta raise a lot of taxes. >> i think they are all pathetic

losers, they make washington, d.c. look like choir boys, i am shocked. in record time, turning to this guy who called him every name in the book, dirty rotten scoundrels of wall street, now they are playing fts ftse it is gross and creepy. neil: i did not think that losing your backbone was one of them. >> i am becoming comfortable here, this week charlie calling out wall street, good job, last week you hung a hammer and is a sickle on dee-dee. >> i did. neil: do you find it odd that wall street that opposed him on every single phase of his agenda. >> not every phase. neil: please. >> now, you have to be repulled

by that. >> i am pleased by their decision, it is what it is. neil: no, i think we have discussed this elections and i know we set against raising taxes but, if that is the consequence of election for a president who campaigned hiking on the back of the rich, i don't like it but, to fold. >> this is a hypocrisy level, thee say this is the right thing to do, but who gets crushed on the higher taxes? small businesses. i don't care what anyone said, president said that 97% of small businesses do not get hit by this, that is if you count the guy into mows your lawn all by himself, and consultants, but those who are hiring --

>> i don't blame the president at all, to ram it down the people's throat. >> we need though -- -- >> my fear is that wall street, acquiesce it knows we'll have far reaching problem. >> of course, like money managers all of a sudden, they are the king, they are self preservation is sad. neil: what are they afraid of? >> they want to keep their money, they want to be the mack daddy. we need the cut and flash s.w.a.t. team,,cutting across the board. >> that is an interesting question, what are they afraid of. the president has a good hand they do not believe -- >> a good hand not a really good hand. >> i tell you what they think, they think that president has a better hand than he probably has. >> that is not a great hand. >> but a good hand, they have a

that if you put it together, and that republicans they can force the republicans to cave there will not be a fiscal cliff that will be damaging. neil: i tell you, better no deal than the deal they are coming up with right now. i raise with you othis, fair and balanced about this with president bush, he read that relatively close election with john kerry as a mandate to do all sorts of things, and mandate of the not there i think it was a case of overreach now, and this president is overreaching now, difference now is that you have a whole powerful section of the economy, going to along for this ridiculous ride. >> you have to be careful, correct thaidon't think that hat president has is the result of a huge electoral victory, it was good but not huge, where the hand comes from is knowing the american people how they feel with respect to increases in taxes but equally as important. is how the cuts end upcoming down, there are going to be

cuts, one other thing, charley. neil: do you think there will be spending cuts ? >> definitely. it is going to happen. it -- it will be historic. neil: not part of this deal. >> it will be historic. >> it will happen. neil: opening ga opening gam bex hikes. >> not happening. neil: really. >> think about how student this is -- stupid this is, there is no need to raise taxes, you don't get enough money, there is no bang for the buck. neil: it is going to happen, this is stupid, i know where you are going. time to let go. somebody needs a hug. >> give charlie a hug. >> oh, charlie. neil: i'm not making a statement i'm telling you, this is going to happen.

i'm not a fan of -- i'm worried though, again to rick a point, notwithstanding we'll not see the cuts, not in the balance -- >> we have to see the cuts. >> it will defy -- >> you know wall street should not have caved so early. wall street enabled this problem. then -- >> when was the last time, we had a deal, where you raise %-be cuts that cuts happened. to >> never. >> i will agree. >> the republican -- >> you are going to see changes in medicare, not necessarily see changes that republicans -- >> i don't believe that, how about obamacare. >> you might see -- >> come on! >> tiny. are you kidding me? >> i tell you, if it goes the way i fear it might be, better no deal than a bad deal. either way, credit rating anxieties will pouncagencywill a

ponderosa buffet. it is not going to be pretty. >> be prepared for a fiscal cliff, a bad deal -- none of those guys on the republican side -- >> i think look back at your bestsellers and have a tinge of guilt that road you to publish publishing fame are wel lusivern pin stripes. >> they are good guys. >> you called them worms. >> they are good guy worms. >> i hate you. >> all right. >> i love you all. neil: i wish we had more time. any cuts are dead on arrival,

he'll be here, so is ralph nad nader. lashing back about how u.s. companies are taking money out, wait until you hear him let her rip. >> but first the democrat who demanded a voice and got one, did he get an answer? we'll ask. governor jack markel. you stl think yore colder thane? nah. don tell me. tell tiny! [ ice crackli ] [ knuckles cracking ] and o are you supposed to be, ck-up? ndle it. what you looking at? ha! cat-like reflexes... whoa! [ male announcer ] t coors light silver bullet pint. it's bge it's resealable it'still the coldest.

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>> we came apart to make sure that voices and issue we face at governors in the states are heard and considered as part of discussions in washington, president was open to that. said we would continue to have a seat at the table. neil: you know, that expression, a seat at table. you got one, so, you know calm down. issue is do you have any influence what you speak from that seat at that table? speaking with the governor,

governor do you think we'll avoid this thing? >> i don't know. the president today was very focussed on wants to get to a solution. he did not handicap it for us, but you can tell he wants to get it done, he sees damage in terms of the economy in terms of the taxes going up. neil: do you think he is over playing his hand. by that, first we were talking about 800 billion in tax hikes now said 1.6 trillion. has not detailed in way of spending cuts. so, there -- don't republicans have a gripe that he is kind of skewed in favor of taxes, taxes, taxes? >> i'm not going to play a pun it hire, our purpose in coming

to washington a group of three democrats and three republican governors to make sure that perspective of the governors is heard. we you know meeting with the president today was very productive. he -- >> how? how it was productive? what did he agree to? >> look, we didn't come to support his plan or the republican plan. i think -- >> why did the come? why? >> we came because as these conversations are going on. we want to make sure that perspective of the governors is heard, the fact that states are partners with federal government across a whole range of programs, and answer is not just a shift of cost to state, you don't -- just because you move money off federal budget does not mean you are safe figure money is picked up by the state. we talk about importance of flexibility in terms of some state programs. and president was open to that.

neil: you run one of the most i guess for lack of a better term, one of the more incorporated states, se -- so many corporatis set up shop in the business friendly delaware, they lot are nervous, about what is going on in washington, they feel they are running into a brick wall. having their interest met or addressed? >> i think that anxiety about lack of certainty is what is driving the president to want to get something done. he recognized when there is clarity it is more likely they will expand, and invest and hire and the like. neil: but clarity notwithstanding, you raise dividend related taxes, capital gains taxes, leaving aside the taxes on upper income. you are going to do sustainable damage. that is what many of tteme fear,

they fear that message is not get across. that a bad deal -- could be worse than no deal, if it is so constructed along taxes, taxes, taxes. >> nobody wants a bad deal, at theesame time, as i read some comments from business leaders who have been in washington the last couple of weeks, they would like a planned approach. neil: what i is a balanced approach to you. >> i'm not going to get into that. neil: no is it dollar for dollar or ratio. in both parties to work out. and administration. neil: then why go to the white house? ratio used to be 3 to 1, and that is $3 in spending cuts for

every $1 in hikes, now just the opposite, now it is dollars 3 in tax hike for a highway patrol for $1 iforfor hope for $1 in sg cuts. >> why go to the white house. neil: concerns about the fiscal implication what it could mine for state budget. and secondly, the impact on our economy. and. neil: you fear even if is not a great deal, the risk of no deal, and recessionary risks are so great, that trumps all. >> certainly, if middle class taxes go up, that is not good for those taxpayers, or for any ofure economyy that is critical, i think again, certainty for business community so they can invest i in and high ser also important. >> thank you governor.

>> all right. neil. neil: open mike night at chuckles combs comedy club, republicans and democrats laughing at each other's offer and counter offers, pat buchanan on why this is looking like a very bad punch line.

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>> two times in the front, and two times in the back. >> all right. >> neil: one of my favorite things on tape remember that guy? he has company in washington as nobody wants their junk touched. big unions say the same, pat

buchanan said it is hard to cut a deal, hen no one is cutting budget or slowing growth. that is reality. ratio now. 3 to 1 in favor of tax hikes over spending cuts. that is a best case scenario right now. >> well, the -- i remember ron aronald reagan in 1985, he said they promised me $3 in spending cuts for every one in spending cuts, they gave him opposite he felt he had been taken to the cleaners in the bill, in 1982, that was on his mind for the rest of his presidency, and republicans are headed into the same trap. neil: i think, there are a lot of people who don't like tax hikes, but president campaigned to hiking taxes on the wealthy,

as much as i'm against it, it is going to happen. but if that a consequence, it is not, other consequence should not be you republicans losing your backbone and resolve on issues near to you, but they are folding on cheap suits on ooe issue after another, what gives? >> i think they realize, they have a gun to their head, they are told by the president, either you will give me an increase in tax rates, repeals bush tax cuts from 39 to 45%, and if you don't, i will sit here, and we'll go over the cliff, and everybody's taxes will be raised. i don't think he is bluffing. i think president obama is less frightened of going over the cliff than the republicans are, that is why the republicans are making all concessioos. i tell you, if we go over the cliff, here is what he would do,

say, okay, now, everyone's taxes have been raised, it happened because the republicans wanted to stand by their fat cat friends, while i tell you, what their taxes will stay where they are increased and i have a tax cut for 98% of americans that will send up to the hill as seen as congress gets back here, we restore the bush tax cuts for middle class and workin work clt the rich are paying their fair share, and i think that country will applaud. neil: you think he comes out a hero, that is why republicans fear, if that scenario they lose. >> they are in a lose-lose situation, only thing obama has to fear is, if he plays it hardball, and takes us over tha@ cliff, on play the savior beyond the cliff. it is possible that we could have a real downturn, a real recession. and a real problem in the economy, in which case, barack

obama will not escape the historic reputation of the democrats' herbert hoover. neil: no president invites a recession on his watch, assuming that is what happens if you get to this cliff. that is what happens. so, he must know, the white house must know, the president must know that is a very big gamble. >> it is. he realizes he is move immediately to restore tax cuts to 98%, secondly, he is not without pressure. he has his you mentioned them the black caucus, unions, liberals areesaying, look we didn't win this elect to go gut the programs medicare, and medicaid and social security, obamacare. >> you are right. there is zero appetite for that. but here is what worries me. i hope i am misreading polls and

numbers, a lot saying go after the rich. very little appetite for addressing spending. i wonder whether the country is shifted to -- yeah we like government, the more the better, shut up. >> you are largely correct. the point is, we have 48 or 49% of country getting direct benefits from government, and 48 or 49% paying no taxes. think of the republican constituents, a lot are seniors, they depend on social security some medicare, and republicans saying we'll give you tax increases and shave back social seccrity and shave back medicare. to what constituency are they appealing?

a couple making a hundred thousand a year, 2,000-dollars right off the top, a huge share of their discretionary income, republican party will have to go back to the drawing board, and decide who and what it is, and whom it represents. neil: i have to get -- the a backbone first. >> thank you, patrick. >> thank you. neil: taxes are so high here that companies stash cash everywhere but here, ralph nader on the money drain that is causing us a lot of pain.

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>> many companies are trying to take their money and run huge firms. ralph nader a big critic of many corporations and a move like this, ralph, what do you think? this is not a shock given what they are facing? >> this has been going on for a long time, with transfer pricing they stash cash overseas, sometimes in countries with significant tax rates they can deduct if they bridg bring the y back home, a lot of times in the bahamas-type tax haven. there is nothing new about that. and they stash far more cash

overseas..3 >> that is another story. they raising dividends to beat the tax man. but i will say, money chases the cheapest market, and i think now, taxes are getting to point here, of that they will be highist of the industrialized world, so corporations. they done gettthose mbas for colling books -- colors books. >> let me put it this way, explanation in this book. if you read this book. neil: no one sells their book better. >> the neil spiel will go sky skyward with looms onty. >> the intend offer to to keep cash abroad is to avoid the -- to invest abroad, you know they are expanding in markets they

need money. neil: there is nothing wrong with that. >> it is really, to escape america, because. if they have 50% of their profit hire, they have 80% cash overseas. so it is disproportional and a matter of patriotism. neil: i will say by your reckoning, a starbucks, a thrives success on every other block in u.s., when it branches out to england -- where they want to tax them to hell by the way -- is that wrong? >> no. main thing is, where they abandon their commitment here, this is where they get r&d, this is where they rose to profits, this is where they were born, this is where their communities

are. neil: we travel all over the world, i love america when i do. but i like travelling, these companies, expand, they open up in new markets. they like their home base, that provided impetus for them to could pand. >> if they over do it if they stack their expenses in u.s., and put a higher proportion abroad. neil: do you not think we're chasing them away, why not be patriotic while we screw you on the wall. >> these are just tax havens. neil: i know tha that. if you or pick out a haven it is beautiful. my point, on this, look. these are more of the exception

than will rule, a lot have most of their people here, in this environment, there is little reason to lock at promising u.s., what is attracting money to places like switzerland, that it is not, inhibiting capital forming a and grrwth, we are. this has been developinn under republicans and democratic presidents alike with rules and regulations this is a very unfriendly environment to business. >> tax -- real tax rate for the large corporations, many who pay no federal income tax is 17%, it is not 35% or 30%, that is the tax rate, due to all loopholes. neil: i know, we can get into this argument. the real tax rate in japan now north of 13%, we can go back and forth on this but trend is up here, there are a lot of countries where reversing or slowing there, that is to a

businessman looking to expand a good reason to expand. >> let's lower the bar, let's expect these u.s. corporationss3 with their privilages they have been given, as least keep as much money her as percentage -- >> you act like they are doing nothing here. they are hiring people, and growing hire, they have done a well the here, and our thank you to them. >> as we talked before, neil, they have -- they are sitting on $2 trillion in cash, nonfinancial corporation like general electric. give it back to dividend owners, give it more -- they will spend more money. neil: then they will raise will be taxed. >> let's put it this way. a lot of times irs cannot find out what is going on due on

transfer pricing. transfer pricing can be illegal. they don't have enough auditors to cover the sprawling global corporations, your own fox news, made it clear in something that i look add today, that there is a far higher cash horde abroad than is reflected in terms of the profits here, and abroad, for big company like sysco, like emc and even apple. neil: they have been moving up with prospects of rates going up, i don't think this is rocket science. >> let's open this up, best way to deal with this fiscal cliff, get revenues on things we don't like, like, wall street speculation tax, and tax gets rid of corporate welfare, and put it no community public -- put it into community public work renovation that creates jobs that cannot be exported to china, it is amazing that

congress does not get that connection. at least put it back into the@ community. that is the best way -- >> ralph. i love you so much, but i wish i had more time to just yell at you. i want to get you back, continued success with your book. >> thank you, neil. neil: when we come bark, text, you texting people, it is 20 years old today, what should i wear? [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare,

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to have your text locked up for two years, they need to build a case in case you commit a crime later. where is all this texting going? is there a central text building or -- where is thhs? >> no, when you send a text, it depends on who your mobile carrier is, whether or not it gets saved and for how long, that is handled by company that you, deal with, that you subscribe to. what law enforcementments to for all of those companies, each and every one of them to be required to store probably in a centrally mandated regularized way, store all of your texts, you send to your family members, colleagues, whoever. they want those companies to be required. neil: sounds outrageous that outrageous.

there is a chance one one out of a billion people is a criminal, come on. >> that is it this is a blanket requirement of all of the texts only a small fraction are going to be criminals. law enforcement wants to keep it, consider this last year law enforcement made 1.3 million requests for user data from mobile companies. neil: when you make 1.3 million questions for user data on individuals? >> that is more than that, some requests were for cell tower data, so say anyone who was connected to a cell tower,

during a period of time, anyone who in that area, so any calls any information might have turned up, you cannot find out if you were one of those people, millions of people, have had their mobile data tracked looked at by law enforcement. >> that is creepy. i would recommend punishment for way some texts are written. gram aticly smelling, but i see, what kind of society we live in where authorities hang on this stuff, who is reading it, text i sense to my boss my wife or friend that was efficient them, not for some other goofball to be pa ruing. because eif it never gets out they have no business looking at it. neil: i bet they are not even asking, i bet they are getting

it of their own volition and accord and unstopped. >> previous versions of this had revision with law enforcement to look at e-mails without a warrant. what they want to have z much data as they can get on you and or anyone regardless if you are already a criminal, they would like access to that any time. theying this is just in case we need it. that becomes any time we want it. neil: thank you very much peter. >> thank you. neil: what is that like, early russia? all right when we come back, you know surest sign companies are worried about falling off a cliff, which they do what they have done doing, in last few weeks in record numbers. record numbers.

neil: in case you have any doubt we're heading to a storm. carnival views cruise line hikes their dividend, and coach, the bag company doing the same. ahead of the big tax hike coming january 1st, we have david joining you, and sandra smith joining us, sandra, someone is worried about something. >> you could say that, but the markets to me don't seem that worried, s&p 500 up 12%, and nazdaq up 15%. neil: why are they raising their dividend? >> that is the thing to do to avoid taxes, you can use costco, outrageous, they were a big fan

of democratic party, and saying that we need to share the problem. but here, here is how we'll share the problem, we'll take a special dividend, before the end of the year, and avoid these taxes we're not going to pay our fair share. >> nottonly that, but costco, actually borrowed that money, a lot of companies had this cash horde they have been sitting on and it thought to be a good thing they get it on system, but costco borrowed money to pay out dividends this year, before taxing go up next year, a lot of these people, as you mentioned supporters of the democratic party, saying that rich need it pay more, well, they borrow money instituture to pay today's -- in the future to pay today's taxes. neil: they will pay more anyway, i understand to take from peter that was planned for paul now. and everyone is going to get screwed. >> the debt will be for next

year. neil: understood. >> they get cash, they can charge the cash. neil: but for investors, it is a zero sum game, you will pay more in dividend taxes. taxes. >> everyone is paying more. and that is, i just got off phone, i have been talking with a private wealth manager, his phone has been ringing off the hook. neil: you can talk to private wealth managers. >> i have access. neil: dave and i talk with the dell i gudeli guy down the bloc. >> it was fascinating, he says they are trim do you thin trimmr stock perspectives, taking them out of commodity. one said they are trimming them down by a third. neil: what does that mean. >> stock, overall allocation in

customer portfolio. neil: to what? >> bonds or cash, that is last thing that the market needs right now. neil: david. >> the one thing we all have to remember, and keep this in your memory bank we'll hear again, maybe two years or three years from now people like warren buffet saying, tax increasing or decreases do not affect my, strategy. look at what shaping now, they are changed all over as a result of taxes going up, yes, they do, strategies depend on whether you pay more pore les or less in ta. neil: we could remember, well she was not born, all fears about clinton tax hike, it would lead to, severe recession, now, i know he mixed it with other goodies to counter the blow but he had a boom. >> we did not have a boom uutil half way through.

taxes witness up in 1993. neil: my point is, it was not financial armageddon. what if we're wrong? >> it has been proven time again, 28% to 20%, we saw revenue double from that capital gains income to government, so it worked then, 1980, ronald reagan did it. >> you are not addressing spending. reality. spending.nton is address >> we're not, january 1st, we have over $16 trillion of debt, the conversation is not about cuts spending that is where it should be. neil: 3 to 1 in favor of tax hikes over spending cuts. >> the stimulus, that began in 2009, it never stopped. we go the to 2010, 2011, 2012 it

adds up close to where our deficit is. neil: a very good point. i wish we had more time. but so little time. more after this. i interrupt, you interrupt, and then you send me all sorts of nasty mail, after this. i always wait until the last minute.

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